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not only but also
Voting below the line (Victoria) 
7th-Nov-2007 10:02 am
(Warning, post contains opinions and possible ignorance, read at your own risk)

One of the problems with voting below the line in the Senate elections is that there are a lot of choices, and its not always clear who is who - is that independant a sensible individual, or did One Nation kick them out? Does "liberty" mean that, or does it mean "NO ONE TELLS ME WHAT TO DO!"

One way you can get a quick idea of how folks stand is by looking at the top and bottom of the preferences for these groups. Here's a quick, opinionated rundown of the medium to small folks (if you don't know where Labor / Liberal stand, you have a need to go do some research beyond the scope of this short post). When I say "ends with", I'm listing the first party that has a chance of getting a representative (IMHO, of course) - its a very rough thing.

Er, originally this was all about the independents, so I've put them first....

NameTop 5(ish) preferencesBottom 5(ish) preferencesCommentsEnds with
Group I: IndependentsGreensCEC, Liberal NationalSo, these guys are leftishGreens
Group P: Independents #1Liberty & Democracy Party, What Women Want, Climate ChangeFamily First, CEC, Christian DemocratsIf it looks like the democrats, smells like the democrats, and preferences like the democrats....Democrats
Group P: Independents #2""""Fundamentally the two are the same, except where the Lib/Lab preferences appear around the 25 mark. These guys are just irritating and cluttering the ballot paper... by being on it.Democrats
Group T: IndependentsDemocratic Labor, LiberalsDemocrats, CEC, GreensOo, so little room at the bottom of my ticket, who to choose.Liberal
Group V: IndependentsIndividuals from Greens, Democrats, Carers, IndependentChristian Democrats (Fred Nile), CEC, Socialist AllianceOnce the get past the individuals, its greens, then democratsGreens
NameTop 5(ish) preferencesBottom 5(ish) preferencesComments
Group A: Climate Change Coalitiontop of ticket for Democrat, Labor, Green, Family First, LiberalFamily First, Senator Online, One NationEither being strange or cunningDemocrats
Group B: One NationFamily FirstGreensHelping highlight what horrid people FF areFamily First
Group C: Democrats #1Carers alliance, Climate Change CoalitionChristian Democrats (Fred Nile), One NationOnce you get past all the one-trick ponies, Greens then LaborDemocrats (then Greens, then Labor)
Group C: Democrats #2""As above, only Green then LiberalDemocrats (then Greens, then Libs)
Group D: What Women WantGreensFamily First, CECAt least the name is clearGreens
Group E: Senator OnlineCarers Alliance, Conservatives for ClimateIndependants, One NationEr. Ok.Nothing says "huh?" like the small groups putting all the independants lastDemocrats
Group F: LaborGreensOne nation, CECYah, wasn't going to put them in, but its nice to see VicLabor can learn from their stupid & aren't putting FF as their preferencesLabor
Group G: Australian Shooters PartyLabor, Fred NileGreensdon'tmakeeyecontactLabor
Group G: Liberal/NatsFamily FirstOne Nation, CECblah, blah, lies, fear uncertainty doubt. MAKE A BETTER DECISIONLiberal
Group J: Socialist Equality party #1GreensNonCustodial parents, Socialist, independentsNice to see the two socialist parties going one anotherGreens
Group J: SEP #2Labor, ShootersDemocrats, What Women want, Senator onlineLabor
Group J: SEP #3Liberal, Nat, Independants (I)Labor, ShootersWhat an odd mixLiberal
Group K: Family FirstChristian Democrats (Fred Nile), Liberty & Democracy Party, Democratic Labor PartyDemocrats, Greensahh, nice to see Family First removing the mask and showing us that they are, in fact, Satan.Family First (then Liberal Party)
Group L: Liberty & DemocracyIndependent, Conservatives for Climate, One NationSocialists, Independents, One NationMuch like countries, if they need to have 'Democracy' in the name, they don't have it. Interesting that the first 'major' party preference is the third Labor guy tho - someone's being very cunning.Labor* (then FF)
Group M: Conservatives for Climate & EnvironmentSenator online, Climate Change Coalition, Liberty & DemocracyLabor, Socialists of all stripesIf the liberal party was higher in their list, i'd assume this was an attempt to say "look, your votes care about environment issue" and then put the votes back to the Liberals. But their first major prefs go to FF => Satan Family First
Group N: Democratic Labor PartyIndependent, Christian Democrats (Fred Nile), Family FirstGreens, CEC, Socialist AllianceSee "Liberty & Democracy"Family First
Group O: Christian Democrats (Fred Nile)Democratic Labor Party, Family FirstGreensThe Democratic Republic of Fred Nile...Family First
Group Q: Citizens Electoral CouncilLiberal, Nat, Carer's AllianceLabor, Greens... quacks like a racist, idiotic liberal...Liberal
Group R: Non-Custodial ParentsCarers Alliance, One Nation, Christian Democrats(Fred Vile)GreensOne trick pony, evilFamily First
Group S: Socialist AllianceGreens, What Women wantChristian Democrats (Fred Nile), CEC, One NationGreens
Group U: Greens #1Democrats, CarersShooters, One Nation, CECCascades to Labor if the greens/democrats don't get a spot.Greens (then Democrats, then Labor)
Group U: Greens #2""CEC, LiberalDitto, with a nice 'fuck you' for the LiberalsGreens (then Democrats, then Labor)
Carers AllianceWhat women want, Climate change coalition... Democratic Labor, CECOnce you cascade through the independants/small, you hit democrats & greensDemocrats* (after all the independants)

TAKE NOTE! how many of the small parties, etc cascade their votes to Family Filth, and even if those bigotted fucks don't get a rep, then their preferences go to the Liberals.

68 options might see a lot, but don't forget that there are 6 slots - nearly 10% of the people running will get in. So, don't think "oh, only my first 5 choices matter", because that may well not be the case - the last state election started hitting the 23rd preferences in some cases.

Take at least some time to think who you want to put at the top, and then at the bottom..

Can anyone tell me if its legal or not to make notes on your arm/hand for going in to vote?
EDIT: goldengrove was more sensible than me, and asked the AEC - you can take notes into the booth with you :)
7th-Nov-2007 12:42 am (UTC)
I had just been thinking of doing something like that table.
Easier for us in the ACT though. 16 candidates for 2 spots with the parties being Labour, Liberal, Greens, Democrats, Climate Change Coalition, Liberty and Democracy, What Women Want, Nuclear Disarmament.

You don't need to write on your hand. Write your list in order on a piece of paper and bring it in your pocket. You are allowed to take all the advertising guff they push at you going in and you can take your wallet/handbag. They won't stop you bringing in your voting list. The electoral commission only really cares that you cast only one vote.

7th-Nov-2007 12:44 am (UTC)
:) I spent an hour or so bouncing around the ABC election guide.

I wasn't sure if there wasn't some whacky rule about not taking "how to vote" pieces of paper that weren't approved or something.
7th-Nov-2007 12:53 am (UTC)
Well ... look at it this way. You will be voting in a private space that no one is allowed to look into. How would they stop you?
I'm not sure the populace would be happy with strip searches at the ballot box :)
7th-Nov-2007 01:02 pm (UTC)
However, if you leave any materials behind when you leave the ballot box, they will quietly take those materials and throw them away. Which makes perfect sense, really.
7th-Nov-2007 01:51 am (UTC)
The electoral commission only really cares that you cast only one vote.

If you're clever enough to be able to create a realistic fake ballot, including the signature of the electoral official, smuggling that ballot into the box is surely going to be the easy part anyway.
7th-Nov-2007 12:45 am (UTC)
very useful post

you rock
18th-Nov-2007 11:18 pm (UTC)
may I repost
7th-Nov-2007 01:07 am (UTC)
I hope you can take a "cheat sheat" I was planning to.
7th-Nov-2007 02:07 am (UTC)
Every preference in the senate counts, if only because you can use it to effectively send a protest against those parties you put at the bottom. Because, unlike in the house of reps, all of your preferences are tallied, regardless of whether they actually get distributed that far down or not.
7th-Nov-2007 03:31 am (UTC)
Regarding the Climate Change Coalition, in Victoria - they have effectively gone Democrats -> Greens, because the ALP candidate they have preferenced is the lead ALP candidate, who will get in on primaries. This is an excellent outcome, as the Climate Change Coaliton not only funnels the donkey vote toward s the Dems/Greens, but they can also take some voters off the Liberal primaries, making it much harder for the Liberals to get a 3rd candidate elected (we're trying the same thing by split-ticketing with the majors - in Vic, we (the Dems), will either win (we have a real chance of winning if we poll 4% or more), or our preferences will go straight to the Greens, and hopefully get them over the line for the final sport. There was absolutely no point in taking a hit to our primary vote that would just lower the overall Dems/Greens combined vote to below a quota (especially since the ALP has gone to the Shooters Party and the DLP ahead of us!).
7th-Nov-2007 03:32 am (UTC)
eeh - I meant "final spot", not "final sport" - I'll catch up on sleep after the election is over ;-)
7th-Nov-2007 04:39 am (UTC)
Excellent, you beat me to it.
7th-Nov-2007 07:09 am (UTC)
I've got my Senate ticket at home ready for me to slowly peruse and fill in, in my own sweet time.

Postal voting rocks :)
19th-Nov-2007 04:33 am (UTC)
Nice post (blame kitling for my seeing it.

Group P is the relatively new Secular Party of Australia. If you look at the full range of their preferences you'll see their primary goal is to oppose the more religious parties.
24th-Nov-2007 01:34 am (UTC)
Thanks for this, much appreciated.
24th-Nov-2007 03:00 am (UTC) - Thanks
This will be helpful. I'm voting for you.
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